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    #31
    Jag har tidigare kört 250 sx -07. Men med min "nya" crf 250 -07 är crosskörningen bra mkt lättare! Den slår sx-07an i allt utom kanske bus-faktorn. Jag upplever crfen som mkt smidigare.
    Testade lite starter i helgen å Hagenblad kom ju inte förbi så lätt med sin crf 450 -09a;)

    Inga problem att på halvmjuk jordbana dra 1an 2an och 3an på bakhjulet, så slö är den ju inte...
    Last edited by ÅkerSkog; 04-28-2009, 06:59 PM.

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      #32
      problemet är väl att jag gillar bra bottendrag, men jag tror att hojens osmidigthet sabbar mer än vad jag får ut av bottendraget.. och på höga varv är den ju helt jävla galen.. så jag kanske inte har nytta av det än.. funderar seriöst på en 125:a eftersom folk ändå säger att man måste varva en 250 4t utav helvete.. vad är poängen med fyrtakt då liksom..

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        #33
        Den eviga frågan får (förslagsvis) här en egen tråd.
        KTM 250 EXC-F 2013 Sixdays

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          #34
          Originally posted by riot View Post
          funderar seriöst på en 125:a eftersom folk ändå säger att man måste varva en 250 4t utav helvete.. vad är poängen med fyrtakt då liksom..
          Du har ett betydligt längre användbart effektregister på en 250f jämfört med en 125:a.Det är den stora skillnaden.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by riot View Post
            problemet är väl att jag gillar bra bottendrag, men jag tror att hojens osmidigthet sabbar mer än vad jag får ut av bottendraget.. och på höga varv är den ju helt jävla galen.. så jag kanske inte har nytta av det än.. funderar seriöst på en 125:a eftersom folk ändå säger att man måste varva en 250 4t utav helvete.. vad är poängen med fyrtakt då liksom..
            Ja inte behöver du varva en 250 4t lika mycket som en 125a iaf.
            Vit KTM FE 350 2019
            ----------------------------
            KTM 350 EXC-F Six Days 2014
            KTM 300 EXC Six Days 2013
            KTM 450 EXC-R 2008
            Suzuki 450 RM-Z 2008
            KTM 450 EXC-R 2008
            KTM 250 SX/F 2007
            KTM 450 EXC-R Factory 2007
            KTM 450 EXC-R 2006
            KTM 250 EXC 2004
            KTM 250 EXC 2000
            KTM 200 EXC 2000

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              #36
              Om man skulle gömföra en 500cc 2t med modernt chass mot en nyare 450 4t.
              Vilken skulle då vara snabbast runt banan?
              500 2t eller?
              Fattar att det blir skillnad beroende på hur banan ser ut, men totalt sett?

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                #37
                Originally posted by Granis View Post
                Om man skulle gömföra en 500cc 2t med modernt chass mot en nyare 450 4t.
                Vilken skulle då vara snabbast runt banan?
                500 2t eller?
                Fattar att det blir skillnad beroende på hur banan ser ut, men totalt sett?
                http://twostrokemotocross.com/2008/1...-versus-cr500/
                Nu är det iofs inte en 500 i ett modernt chassie, men kan ge en fingervisning ändå tror jag.
                Last edited by odontologen; 04-30-2009, 08:47 AM.

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                  #38
                  Tur man hittade denna tråd och slapp skapa en ny...

                  Själv har jag gått från 250F -> 450F -> 250 2 takt och 300 2 takt.

                  Körde mycket med min WR450F-07/08 och på skoj köpte jag en EXC250-00:a, ville mest prova 2 takt för små pengar. Kommer ihåg att jag skrattade när jag drog igång "moppen" och undrade om det skulle hålla första varvet....

                  30 minuter senare körde jag snabbare än jag någonsin gjort på hemmabanan samtidigt som leendet var bredare än på länge... nu står min stora 4 taktare och samlar damm i garaget. 250-00:an var lite ålderstigen så jag beslutade mig för att köpa en EXC300-09 som jag nu kört 20 h med. 300:an är en riktigt fin sak med gott om pulver överallt och samt elstart.

                  Problemet är att jag anser 300:an är för likt en 4 taktare för att vara optimal och underhållande (för min del..). Tycker om att köra på varv och funderar nu på att införskaffa mig en EXC250 eller eventuellt EXC200:a.

                  Har någon av er kört en EXC200:a och kanske kan berätta skillnaden mot en 250:a?

                  Tack! /D

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                    #39
                    Tjenare Hialös rekommenderar dig att skaffa dig switchen för hög resp låg tändkurva. Mkt stor skillnad mellan de två.Du sätter den på styret. Enduro, lågkuva och cross högkurva. Motorn varvar mer och är betydligt mer yster vid hög kurva. Skulle inte det räcka kan du ju alltid byta avgasportfjädern och på så vis få en änne "värre" motor. Räcker inte det kan du dreva mindre fram alt större bak.
                    Lycka till

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by EXC300/XR650 View Post
                      Tjenare Hialös rekommenderar dig att skaffa dig switchen för hög resp låg tändkurva. Mkt stor skillnad mellan de två.Du sätter den på styret. Enduro, lågkuva och cross högkurva. Motorn varvar mer och är betydligt mer yster vid hög kurva. Skulle inte det räcka kan du ju alltid byta avgasportfjädern och på så vis få en änne "värre" motor. Räcker inte det kan du dreva mindre fram alt större bak.
                      Lycka till
                      Tack för tipsen!

                      Har tyvärr redan prövat precis allt, fastnade för performance kurvan och grön fjäder i avgasporten.

                      "Problemet" är att 300:an beter sig som en 4 taktare och jag vill ha 2 taktar kurvan med svagare botten och gott om pulver på topp. Svagare botten gör att man kör mer energisnålt i skogen och vill man ha pulver finns det längre upp i registret.

                      De flesta tror att de kör fortare på en 4 taktare än vad de faktiskt gör, läste ett intressant test igår. Lägger in det senare.

                      /D.

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                        #41
                        Intressant läsning och ungefär det man märker på den lokala banan. Alla börjar med 450 4 taktare och slutar med mindre hojar. De som går över till 2 taktare och trivs på dem utvecklas blixtsnabbt...


                        1/28/20079 riders - 13 bikes - crazy results! WOODS BIKE SHOOTOUT

                        Wouldn't it be interesting to do a real world woods bike shootout? Something never done before, that would really give us some answers? The age old �which bike is best in the woods� argument is just as strong today as it ever was, and you can usually hear it anytime woods riders get together for a little bench racing. Its all about which brand and size is best, and whether or not a 2-stroke or 4-stroke is best. Like a KDX200 vs. a KTM 200XCW vs. a WR250F. Take your pick of brand, size, strokes. A pretty good argument can be made for all of them.

                        The playing field is changing, however, with the excellent woods specific bikes now available from KTM. The argument is no longer always about different brands and how they stack up. Now the argument can often be centered around which KTM is better - a 2-stroke or 4-stroke KTM, small displacement or large displacement. Depending on who you talk to, the KTMs are King, or they have crap suspension, or they handle great, or they wont turn, or they are junk compared to the Jap bikes, and the list goes on and on. Ask nine riders and you will get nine different answers. Or will you? What if you put a group of nine riders together in a woods bike shootout with their own bikes, and the 2007 KTM woods specific bikes � the XCW series � to see just how things would sort out? Would we learn anything worthwhile? Theres only one way to find out.

                        OK, that sounds great - a real world woods bike shootout like no one has done before! A group of riders on their personally prepared bikes and the new KTM woods bikes, but thats a tall order. Who is going to pull it off and where would you hold a shootout like that? Well, there is no place better than the north Georgia mountains to test a woods bike, and there is no riding place in Georgia better than Highland Park. Many of the riders that frequent Highland Park often ask �what makes a KTM so good? Why do so many people buy KTMs for woods riding?� So Highland Park and KTM World founder Paul Wright decided to do a real world woods bike test with nine riders and 13 motorcycles. The bikes in the test were a mix of personal bikes owned by the nine test riders, and four 2007 KTM XCW models, 13 bikes total.

                        A top rated, fun, and thoroughly challenging off-road park, Highland Park (HighlandParkResort.com)is located near historic Cedartown, GA. A favorite destination for dirt bike enthusiasts from all over the East Coast, Highland Park has trails rated from one to five diamonds, and the trail map says the four diamond trails are �expert only�. Five diamond trails are for �Supermen, fresh tires only�. Oh, and add 2 diamonds if conditions are wet! This is not your typical ho-hum riding area. There are easy and moderate trials, but the hardest trails are a challenge for even the most seasoned woods riders.

                        Getting to Highland Park is a scenic drive out into the north Georgia hills, down a one lane road, and just when you think the road cannot get any worse, the so-called pavement ends and it becomes a dirt road. After a quarter mile on the narrow and winding dirt road, just as you are absolutely sure you made a wrong turn somewhere, you come upon the privacy fencing and sign at the Highland Park entrance. Turning in the graveled drive takes you past a pond and up the drive where you come through a stand of pines and it suddenly opens up into a large registration parking area and you see a to see building - far bigger than you expected - that has a distinct country theme with natural cedar tree posts holding up the tin porch roof. Very cool.

                        Once inside you discover a large wood walled showroom absolutely filled with dirt bike goodies, and there are new KTMs everywhere. KTM accessories are also everywhere � exhausts, sweatshirts, key chains, jackets, skid pans, hats, wallets, you name it. To the rear is a long wooden parts counter with rows of tall parts shelving behind it, filled with KTM parts. You see, Highland Park is also home to KTM World (ktmworld.com), one of the largest KTM facilities anywhere. Highland Park and KTM World compliment each other, and you can stop in to go riding, buy a KTM, rent a KTM for the day, get your bikes suspension serviced, pick up some new riding gear, and a lot more. Truly a unique place for off-road enthusiasts.

                        KTM World provided four 2007 KTM woods bikes, a 200XCW, 250XCW, 300XCW, and 400XCW, pulled right out of the rental fleet. They were all showroom stock except for the nice Scotts steering dampers. The rental bikes were very nice, perfectly prepped, and had new or almost new Pirelli intermediates at both ends. Very nice. And you can just drive up 7 days a week and rent these bikes? Man, that is simply amazing, and the cost is far less than you would imagine.

                        Highland Park provided the testing facility and organized nine woods riders to come out on a brisk Sunday morning in January to ride their own bikes and the four 2007 KTMs. The test riders are all competent riders, ages 33 to 49, with skill levels ranging from C up to A, and most race now or have raced in the past. The test riders personal bikes included a built 480cc Honda CRF450 set up for woods use, a more standard CRF450, a Kawasaki KDX220, Yamaha WR400F, and a Honda CR250R set up for woods use, plus a 06 KTM 250XC, an 05 and 06 KTM 450 EXC, and a 06 KTM 400 EXC.

                        Commenting on the test, Wright explained �The idea was to ride the much improved 2007 KTMs just like anyone can buy, and see how they faired against nine well prepared bikes owned by the test riders, including some pretty nice one and two year old KTMs. I wanted big bikes, small bikes, 2-strokes, and 4-strokes, plus riders with various skill levels to make this test as real as it gets, and the results as real as it gets.�

                        When asked about the test loop riders would have to negotiate, Wright said �I put together a good 8 mile loop with varying terrain. A special test section, some fast dirt roads, a mix of tight single track and faster trails, and a hill climb or two. We needed a little bit of everything to really test the riders and the machines.�

                        The shootout began with a riders meeting, then everyone went outside to the start/finish area and all test riders were given a questionnaire to complete just before going out for a their first test loop. Questions ranged from �What size bike do prefer for woods use� to �Which bike do you think you will ride fastest�, and �Do you prefer 2-strokes or 4-strokes�. Each rider would do the approximately 8 mile loop on his own bike, then a loop on each of the 2007 KTMs, then a final loop on their own bike, with the first and last loop on their personal bikes averaged together.

                        Riders left in 5 minute intervals, and each test loop was timed, but the riders were never allowed to see their times! When asked about this, Wright explained �I want the riders to ride each bike as best they can, and give us good feedback on the questionnaires after each test ride, without knowledge of which bike they rode fastest. I want to compile data that is not biased by the rider knowing he did well or poorly on any particular bike, including his own. I thought it best to keep their times secret until after the testing and all questionnaires were completed. We may find some very interesting results by the end of the day!�

                        TEST RESULTS
                        We are going to come right out and tell you the results were more than just interesting. They were eye-popping. In the initial questionnaire, 7 of the 9 riders said they thought a 4-stoke was best, and more than half thought an open class bike was best. A few went with a 250, and no one thought a 200 was best. When asked which bike they would ride fastest, most thought they would be fastest on their own bike, rather than a KTM they had never ridden before, and 33% thought they would be fastest on the 2007 KTM 400XCW. Seven of the nine riders also thought they would likely be fastest on a 4-stroke rather than a 2-stroke. They were, to a person, absolutely wrong.

                        The test results showed that every single person rode a 2007 KTM faster than their own bike, even with no previous experience on the KTM. All but one rider rode ALL FOUR 2007 KTMs faster than they rode their own bike. The exception was one rider that already owned a KTM, and he was still faster on three of the four 2007 KTMs than he was on his own bike. And in that one case, the riders lap time on his own 450 KTM was only 6 seconds faster than the time he posted on the 2007 KTM 200.

                        Lets go over that again, because the results are astonishing. All of the nine test riders went faster on every 2007 KTM in the test, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, 200cc to 400cc, than they did on their own bike, with the single exception being one rider going a mere 6 seconds faster on his own KTM one time while testing the four 2007 KTM XCW woods specific bikes. That definitely raised an eyebrow or two as the test results were tabulated.

                        After each test lap, the riders had to rate each of the 2007 KTMs. Categories to rate included suspension, motor, handling/turning, and brakes. Riders were also asked if they liked the bike, if they felt comfortable on it, and if they thought they could ride it well. On average, amongst all nine riders, the 2007 KTMs received consistent high marks in every category. Of interest, the morning started off rather slick and muddy, but by the end of the day, there was some dust in the air in a few places. All testers rated the excellent Pirelli tires (Scorpion MX/XT rear, mid-soft MT32 front) very high in the �Tire effectiveness� category, which is impressive considering the changing traction conditions over the course, and over the course of the day. Hats off to Pirelli for a true all-terrain tire that every rider in the test thought worked very well.

                        Despite the riders saying they thought a four stroke was best, the 2007 KTM 300XCW was the top rated bike in the shootout, with a score of 97.6 from the questionnaires filled out by the riders after a lap on the 300. The clock said one rider went fastest on the 300, and 4 riders went second fastest on the 300. Every rider was impressed with the 300, and not a single rider one turned a slow time on the KTM 300. Comments were typically about �super light weight for an open class bike� and �amazingly smooth power delivery�. We know from experience the KTM 300XCW is a great bike that is easy to like, and every test rider confirmed it.

                        Everyone in our group of riders loved the KTM 400XCW, it was very highly rated by all testers, coming in second to the KTM 300 with a score of 95.1. Test riders commented that the 400 was easy to ride and felt very comfortable to them right away, with very compliant suspension and great handling everywhere except the tightest trails. Despite the very positive comments and high ratings, the KTM 400 was only fastest for one of the riders. Most riders posted their third or fourth fastest lap time on the 400, but judging from their comments, they obviously enjoyed every minute of it!

                        The 2007 KTM 250XCW came in with a score of 94.5, as rated by the test riders after their lap on the well liked 250. The riders had nothing but praise for the overall package offered by the 250 KTM, and all but one of the riders posted good lap times on it. The 250 came in as the second or third fastest bike for many of the test riders, but 33% of the riders picked it as the bike they felt they rode the fastest in the shootout. Comments on the KTM 250 were often about how well it did everything and anything, and it was the second most popular choice in the �Which bike would you buy� category.

                        Most riders said they really liked the KTM 200, and it scored high marks when riders were asked �which bike do you feel most comfortable on�, �Which bike was best in tight woods�, and the KTM 200XCW was number one in the �Which bike would you buy� category. Contrary to these positive answers, our riders rated the 200 lowest of the group in feedback and feel, power, suspension, and how well the bike stayed planted. Most testers felt it was underpowered and lacked adequate suspension to really go fast. The 2-stroke KTM 200XCW had an average rating of 92.30 from our riders. Remember that in the initial questionnaire, riders said 4-strokes were best, open class bike were best, and not a single rider said they thought they would like the 200 best. However, five of the nine riders turned their fastest lap of the day on the KTM 200, and a sixth rider was only a few seconds from recording his best lap on the 200! Several riders went 2 to 3 minutes faster on the 200 than their own bike, and one rider cut a lap time 4 minutes faster on the KTM 200 compared to their own bike.

                        Consider that our average rider weighed 196.88 lbs, far too heavy for the stock suspension on the ultra light 200, and every single test rider owned a bike bigger than the 200cc KTM, most owning a 450 four stroke, but they still went fastest on the KTM 200XCW the first time they ever rode it!

                        CONCLUSION
                        With test results showing every rider went faster their first time ever riding the 2007 KTMs than they did on their own bike, even with no suspension changes for the average rider weight of 197 lbs, you have to wonder how fast they would be on a 2007 KTM, especially the KTM 200, with the suspension set up for their weight.

                        Then again, maybe there is not too much to wonder about. There would likely be more riders in our group winning their class at the local Enduro or Hare Scramble, or at least whipping up on their buddies on the next trail ride. Did we answer the question of which brand and which size bike, 2-stroke or 4-stroke is best? Despite popular belief that a big 4-stroke is best, the stop watch does not lie, and our test showed the 2-stroke KTM 200 makes most riders a hero, right out of the box, first ride, and the KTM 300 is right on its heels for making a hero out of a typical rider.

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                          #42
                          2-takt är mer lättmekat än 4-takt. och om du skulle få ett ras på en 2-taktare så blir det inte alls samma pengar som en 4-takt.
                          ett rejält ras på en tvåtakt kan kosta 5-7000 att reparera och en 4-takt 10-20000:- om man lämnar in på firma!

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Shysst generalisering av vad ett haveri kostar...

                            Det svårmekade på en 4-t är?
                            Visst, en 2-t har färre delar så att säga i sin konstruktion, men är den enklare att meka med för det?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Limpan_92 View Post
                              2-takt är mer lättmekat än 4-takt. och om du skulle få ett ras på en 2-taktare så blir det inte alls samma pengar som en 4-takt.
                              ett rejält ras på en tvåtakt kan kosta 5-7000 att reparera och en 4-takt 10-20000:- om man lämnar in på firma!
                              Jag kan inte säga något om kostnaden för ras på en 2-taktare då jag inte råkat ut för det, däremot en 4-taktare och det var dyrare än vad du anger.

                              Att en tvåtaktare är mer lättmekad är väl inget man måsta vara snille för att inse tycker jag. På en 2-taktare byter en normalhändig kolven på på någon timme, det gör man nog inte som normalhändig, dvs jag själv på en fyrtaktare. Förutom det är normal service enklare på en 2-taktare, inga ventiler som ska kollas/justeras. Inga oljefilter som ska sölas med, inga kamkedjesträckare som ska hålla under uppsikt etc.

                              Byt olja i växellådan på 10 min...tanka och kör. Enda nedsidan kanske är att det kan vara lite jobbigt att blanda olja i bensinen?? Kanske kanske är en tvåtaktare lite känsligare för kyla och också på bestyckning av förgasaren, men det kanske någon annan kan svara lika bra på då jag själv inte laborerart med munstycken på min hoj speciellt, den har allt jag önskat, vrid, effekt i kombination med låg vikt och nästan ingen gyrokänsla jämför med de 4-taktare jag haft.
                              KTM EXC 250F -10 "såld"
                              Husqvarna WR 300 -09 *såld*
                              Husqvarna TE 250 -08 *såld*
                              KTM 450 EXC *såld*
                              KTM 525 MXC *såld*

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Foggen33 View Post
                                Att en tvåtaktare är mer lättmekad är väl inget man måsta vara snille för att inse tycker jag. På en 2-taktare byter en normalhändig kolven på på någon timme, det gör man nog inte som normalhändig, dvs jag själv på en fyrtaktare.
                                Det enda som tillkommer på 4t vid kolvbyte är ju att montera kamkedjan rätt vid hopmonteringen i princip,och det borde inte vara alltför svårt att lära sig för den normalbegåvade.Knappast skäl att välja bort 4t om det nu är det man vill åka(och det vill man ju såklart).

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